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FK-180-3534 Motors
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Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post FK-180-3534 Motors  Reply with quote
UPDATE: 2015-4-28

So I've had a play with the fresh set of motors I got and they're not even worth trialling. Preliminary results show they are no better than stock and putting 3S through them will roast them. AVOID AT ALL COSTS.

/thread.

What is below is for posterity.

--

Full details of the state of these motors as they stand can be found here. Long story short, I got a lemon and replacements are inbound. Further testing will occur once I have them in hand. Hopefully, they'll be here before GC1. Smile

EDIT: The below is based on confirmed failure of the carbon brush of one of the flywheel motors. Replacements have been ordered, the below is kept only for posterity.

For those of you who've not seen it, my new shiny Rapidstrike paint job arrived this morning.

Now, I've been playing around with the blaster all morning and probably have put upwards of 1000 rounds through it now. I had to reseat the flywheel cage in order to reduce a bit of an accuracy problem but I still noticed a problem with the pace of the outbound darts. Rate of fire on the build is fantastic and it sounds like a 2S RS should but the power seemed a little lacklustre. I popped it over the chrono and the data is here.

Average (2S): 62.3FPS

Yeah, you read that right. It's actually worse than stock performance. I'd let the whole loom bed in before trying it on the chronograph. Now, I bought the 3534s by mistake (late nights and eBay don't mix well) so I thought I'd try them. The data is there: I'd avoid them if you're planning on using 2S. I'm going to put a freshly charged 3S through them to see if I can tune the batteries for them but I think a motor swap might be in order ahead of GC1 next month. Smile

Interesting side note: the chronograph is covered in flywheel gunk after the test. More so than a usual 50 dart flywheel test. I'm wondering if that's a sign that we've got the RPM but not the torque. There's some sign of pusher over-run at 2S (though that could be the trigger) and as I said above, it sounds like a 2S RS should but it's not performing as such. 3S test results in bound.

3S LiPo UPDATE:

I'd like to submit this for blaster fail of the year. 3S didn't work out so well and now I'm waiting for new motors to come in because the 3534s are not suitable for Nerf usage. The break in firing is me clearing a squib the only way I know how: magazine out, pull it out with your teeth and spit it out in contempt. The final 2 shots that cross the camera were fired level from the rig to the left of the field of view.

I'm actually kind of happy to have a mod go south on me like this. We had a great laugh in the office when Erebus vomited darts halfway down the chronograph. I've published all the details I can for science but if there are any further queries, I'm happy to field them.

Now to order some more motors...

_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |

Last edited by Boff on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:27 am; edited 4 times in total
Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:16 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
I noticed a haze of cooked foam on my chrono after the shoot I did. I think the noisy but no torque is probably true of lots of the 130 builds too. You need any motors?
Sorry to hear they didn't work out. I will be testing Kevs ones shortly. Good job I added some extras to your wiring loom. Open it up.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:16 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post Reply with quote
I've already been inside to fix the trigger. I noticed the motor block, I think I mentioned it in the Tumblr post. Thanks for that.

If you've got any 3240s going, I'll take them. Otherwise, I'll wait until the company gets their job lot of Falcon 130s in in a couple of weeks. Smile

_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |
Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:26 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
I remain unconvinced by the Falcons myself. There isn't much real data on them, they will run hotter too. I will look in my stash of motors. Will PM you.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:30 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post Reply with quote
We're not convinced by them either, that's why we bought 20 of them to test to destruction in a variety of builds. BlasterTECH swear by them and they're telling me they've not had many failures Down Under with them. There'll be plenty of data once we're done with them. Very Happy

_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |
Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:34 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SSGT
Nerf Addict


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 1265
Fav. Blaster: 'Rave-N' CS-18, Elite Alpha Trooper (EAT) CS-12
Location: Durham



Post Reply with quote
The most I've found is for Falcon VIIs on here. 258gcm @ 12V compared to 174gcm @ 3V (around 696gcm @ 12V) from the 3240s (all stall figures). No doubt they're a huge step up from standard 130s, and alright if you really don't want to cut the shell, but not a patch on 3240s. They also spin slower at a given voltage than 3240s (46,500 RPM vs about 51,600 RPM @ 12V). Obviously you wouldn't want to run either at 12V but it makes it easy to compare them.

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Trust me, I'm an engineer! Very Happy

Antonius wrote:
Compoooter bits make shiny Nerf blaster go whoosh!
Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:49 pm View user's profile Send private message
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
Interesting. All the Aussies are running them at 3s. That is probably why.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:02 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Big_Poppa_Nerf.
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 518
Fav. Blaster: I have lots of fav. blasters!
Location: West Midlands



Post Reply with quote
I bought these on recommendation from Britnerf. They haven't arrived yet though. I hope these run better than yours. I don't know enough (or feel confident enough) about motors to mod at this level. I hope these work out for me.

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Regards

Big Poppa Nerf.


OldNoob wrote:

The Flymo is half price too because nobody loves it.
Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:54 pm View user's profile Send private message
SSGT
Nerf Addict


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 1265
Fav. Blaster: 'Rave-N' CS-18, Elite Alpha Trooper (EAT) CS-12
Location: Durham



Post Reply with quote
Those ESky motors should just be repackaged 3240s so they shouldn't be a problem.

_________________
Trust me, I'm an engineer! Very Happy

Antonius wrote:
Compoooter bits make shiny Nerf blaster go whoosh!
Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:02 pm View user's profile Send private message
Big_Poppa_Nerf.
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 518
Fav. Blaster: I have lots of fav. blasters!
Location: West Midlands



Post Reply with quote
SSGT wrote:
Those ESky motors should just be repackaged 3240s so they shouldn't be a problem.


Phew! Good good. I may treat myself to hiring Oldnoobs Chrono once the build is done.

_________________
Regards

Big Poppa Nerf.


OldNoob wrote:

The Flymo is half price too because nobody loves it.
Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:06 pm View user's profile Send private message
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
Those are exactly the same motors I have in the Ultimate Rapidpistol, confirmed 3240, shoot 108fps average on 2s.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:22 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post Reply with quote
Update: I've just opened this and it turns out the top flywheel motor isn't working. I didn't check for life on arrival but there doesn't appear to be any outward damage to the motor or the housing. Investigations are ongoing.

_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |
Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:45 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
When I opened it up for dissasembly two of the contacts were broken. When I re soldered the motor block, both were working fine, I checked the whole loom with my test battery.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:57 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post Reply with quote
Yeah, I figured. I think it was probably a failure at our end during testing. We had it open once before chronograph testing to reseat the flywheel cage and CarrierII was pretty sure both flywheels were working then. Either it's a dud motor or 3S has killed the brushes. I'll necropsy it later. Smile

_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |
Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:00 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
One contact was broken off in storage at mine, but only the thin part at the top. Did you get more than one set? I am going to look in my loft for motors today.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:21 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post Reply with quote
Just one set. The solder joins are perfectly good, there's no outward damage, discoloration or problems. The lower fly runs fine but the top one is toast. We had no burning or ozone smell to indicate a problem and the commutator spins fine when manually turned so there's no obvious problem there, either. As I say, I'll get it open later to see what's what.

_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |
Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
That was what caused your 3s derp then.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:43 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post Reply with quote
Necropsy complete. It turns out one of the carbon brushes had come away from its mount which explains why there was no short circuit during the failure. I'm guessing it was faulty at the point of manufacture and died a death when we started putting darts through it. Smile

tl;dr It's a lemon, Jim. Full blog post with links inbound.

EDIT: Direct replacements ordered, I'm going to persist with these until I get to full characterise a set of them compared to FK180-3534s. I've ordered 2 replacement motors this time to see if I can get a decent one. I figure I've just been unlucky this time out but time will tell.

EDIT#2: Full necropsy can be found here.

EDIT #3: New motors arrived this morning. Will be fitting them to the RS tomorrow at some point. Expect numbers shortly after.

_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |
Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:48 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4823
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
Thanks for doing the testing on these. I have a feeling we are going to need an alternative 180 after GC1, I am down to my last pair.

_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:58 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boff
The Dealer


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 3388
Fav. Blaster: (Modified) Stampede ECS
Location: Bristol, UK



Post Reply with quote
I just did a first impressions trial in these ahead of GC1. I don't have time to do a full trial just yet but the 6 shots I did put over the chronograph didn't go above 80 at any point on 2S. I'll do the full shebang next week but it's not looking promising!

For reference, I'm swapping the stock motors back in in hope of having something that'll work this weekend on 2S. Smile



_________________
Boff: Managing Director, Blastersmiths UK & BUZAN Founder (formerly)
| Blog: nerfarmourer.tumblr.com | Website: www.blastersmiths.co.uk | Legal: http://pastebin.com/6sQ7c3jg |
Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:00 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
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