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old_man_nerf

Do blaster tags count?

This came up as feedback from our last event, and i guess i'd not really considered it and been specific enough before. So to provoke a bit of discussion for Friday afternoon, the weekend games, and Bristol Tech day - Do blaster hits count as a tag?
bigal123

We count them as a hit at skatepark games.
blindgeekuk

I take them as a tag personally, but I don't enforce it as a rule as its not alwys obvious you've been hit
Treezy

If the person calls it as a tag, I'll take it as a tag, and I'd expect the same done to me (in fact, had it done to me). However, if it's just because a bit of a blaster is poking out from behind cover, I'd probably let it slide.

The same with ricochets: I know I purposefully used a wall and the reflection in a glass door to pull off a ricochet tag at last BB, and I bloody well called the target out on it!

If someone deliberately kicks/slaps a flying dart away, or catches it out of the air, I'd probably let them get away without calling the tag though!
Boff

In the same way I don't count ricochets as tags, I don't count blaster hits as a tag for the simple reason it can be very difficult to know in either case if you've been hit. The vibration of a flywheeler will suppress any impact feedback that you'll get from a dart hitting your blaster and I don't like the idea of encouraging people to aim for anything other than centre of mass. If a dart comes home to the body, you can usually feel it and it makes taking hits very easy.

Of course, the flip side is that permitting blaster tags encourages players to properly clear corners. You can't just shove your blaster around a corner and open up blind like a muppet. You've got to do it properly and more importantly safely. In practice, however, I find that effective reffing will discourage it as a practice and on balance it's better to have no blaster tags.
OldNoob

I count blaster tags but only if they are called properly by the tagee, its stops DBAD spray n pray round corners. Also if your weapon was hit "for realz" it would stop working or take your hand off.
I originally followed "no blaster tags" but isince I dropped it this year there have been no complaints. I also found people using things like Stampede shields to block doorways and similar, forcing engagement distances down inside my permitted minimum and blocking movement.
SirBrass

Unless we say it doesn't count as a tag for that round, I treat hits to my blaster as a tag. I don't enforce it on others unless they are using a massive blaster like a Khaos where it darn well ought to count.
Treezy

OldNoob wrote:
DBAD .


Ok, enlighten me, please?
tbr

I've always assumed they didn't count, just hits to the person. For one you can't always tell you've been hit and secondly shields mounted to a blaster would be useless (not that I used one).

I asked the question in the feedback for GuN as I had exited the building and got hit by a few darts close range that all miraculously hit my Stryfe (not the biggest of blasters) and I got called out for not taking the hit. I had assumed that equipment doesn't count, I took the hit, specially as it was followed up buy another dozen to the full body a few seconds later Smile
Boff

Treezy wrote:
OldNoob wrote:
DBAD .


Ok, enlighten me, please?


That's old school HvZ speak. Stands for Don't Be A Douchebag. It's the functional equivalent of BUZAN's Rule 0: Don't Be A Dick and LARP's Rule 7: Don't take the piss. All of which speak for themselves, really. Smile

I've not encountered any meta-gaming fucks screwing with adding blaster shields and such in my time so haven't felt the need to have them count.
NerfNoob

In the games I play we count blaster tags, but not ricochets.

One of the reasons we count blaster tags is because my wife constantly blind fires, which I think is against the rules but she disagrees.

I also think counting blaster tags removes ambiguity. Otherwise do hits to the peak of a cap count? A bag? A ponytail? If you count any part held or attached to a player as a tag it's less confusion imo
Shady-daze

As a game that relies heavily on sportsmanship I personally take blaster hits, though if it glanced of a blaster and was hard to verify I would hope that whoever fired would accept that as a non-tag.  I think just being reasonable is the best position, that extends to both taking tags and accepting if someone else doesn't.

If you are going to specifically discount blaster tags as a rule adding the additional rule of no blind firing (your whole head must be visible when firing) is kinda necessary to prevent players exploiting said rule.

The other option I haven't seen other mention is the rule employed at most airsoft sites which if a blaster is hit it disables the blaster and doesn't count as a tag. While you still have the issue of knowing whether a blaster tag occurred there is a slight more willingness to accept said rule if players are unsure, as it doesn't completely remove them from the game.
Rab

I think, all hits should count.
Ricochet , blaster hit, blind firing,  whatever.

Keeps it simple.
Minky

I like that rule shady daze.
That would seem to be the best of both worlds and also make a point to secondaries/pistols. I think that would be really cool. It might also make guys who blind fire think twice as they'd want to be able to see to verify any hit called on their blaster.
OldNoob

Good luck enforcing the "your blaster isn't working."
I would simply take a respawn, my primary is there to do the fighting, screw messing about with pistols.
Boff

Rab wrote:
Ricochet


Not as simple as you think. We banned ricochets in the days of Vortex because we had problems with people genuinely not feeling hits that came home from floating disks. It caused a lot of bad blood so we stopped permitting them. Thankfully, Vortex died a death so I don't have to explain that one every damned time these days. RIVAL might pose a similar problem as it takes hold.

As I've already said, good refs/marshals are there to stop blind firing if teaching people to clear corners properly fails.

Speaking of which, I need to go do some Googling... Smile
UKNerfWar

If I hit a blaster I call it as a hit. If the other player doesn't take it as a hit then it doesn't really bother me. Same as tags on loose clothing and whatnot, sometimes it's hard to call. Sometimes it can be hard to see exactly where a hit landed so I call everything that finds a target. Problems only arise when players consistently refuse to take a tag.

I did discover that I could fairly regularly swipe HIRs out of the sky with my Swarmfire at Hendon. Thus the game of HIR baseball was born.
FDT

Yup we count them at FDT. If a ref sees it they'll call it and our players take that without argument most of the time.
Davidov

I count blaster hits, with general fair play and don't take the mick being something players get a feel for as they go along with re: slight clips to clothing or hit to barrels poked around corners.

Blasters block a considerable portion of your body, especially when it's a close up and or straight on exchange and it's more important to be clear that they are not shields. (Unless specific game rules apply of course)

The comments of it being hard to tell are a moot point as if no one notices it then it doesn't come up, if it is noticed by one or the other and they decide it is or isn't call worthy then that's what it is, get on with the game.

Lastly if people get aggro'd or are worried enough to make a big issue on either side of the calling/taking hits then they need to take a look at themselves in the mirror as a person and as an example to younger/newer players. (Unless of course it's because the person on the other side of things is consistently being a douche but then the world is all about grey areas, learn to figure it out, don't worry, be happy)

*edit
For the drop and some other stuff I'll be giving people the option of taking the damage from a hit to the torso or the blaster breaking until they get it repaired in the case of hits to blaster.
NewportNerfer113

This is an interesting one for me.  I personally think they should count, but it isn't something we've needed to address at a Bristol Blast event.  

I think if it is a clear tag that's called it should count.  But because you may not have noticed the hit, and the "tagee" (I think I saw that word used earlier in the thread) may not have called it... you just carry on.

I'd like to extend the discussion ever so slightly to include apparel.  Mods - tell me to piss off and do my own post if this isnt the place, but it feels like a natural extension of the topic at hand.

For those that have been to a BB event, you will know that for some stupid reason I Nerf in a cowboy hat.  It started as a joke, and now it's part of my persona per se.  However, when I'm being shot at occasionally a dart will hit the rim of the hat.  If it's the front of the hat, that's a headshot and I'm deaded.  But, what about the rim to the left or right hand side... not a head shot imo, and I wouldn't count it.

This then leads to other bits of gear that stick out... like miranda pouches.   They stick out, you wouldn't feel the tag, what would you do? As potentially, depending on where the dart is hitting, if the pouch wasn't there, it wouldn't hit you at all.
Rab

I reckon they count, you might not feel them, but if they're called then its a hit.

Make everything a hit and theres no ambiguity.
Keeps things simble for me 😜
Minky

Maybe this all depends on the group you are playing with? I can see that in the bedlam of a kids game that enforcing 'small print' rules would lead to constant confrontation and aggravation and you Need the rule set to be simple to stand up, but for adult/mature games I like the idea of the extra dimension to the game blaster hits disabling the blaster could bring in terms of secondary/pistol choices and the loadout considerations they'd bring. To me it seems intuitive...
Blaster hits blaster, disables blaster?

As far as loose, bulky clothing.. It's going to be hard to distinguish what would of continued onto your stumps and what would of missed without HawkEye or such..
Rab

Probably right Minky.

I do like simple fast paced games myself.

I shot you, you've been shot works for me. But I totally get what your saying.
Treezy

I think ricochets should count, but only if the shooter sees their shot tag a target, AND calls the tag e.g. bouncing rival balls down a corridor or using reflections to set up a ricochet shot. Blind/accidental ricochet hits shouldn't count.

For shots hitting extremities like hats or pony tails, I guess it's up to the players to call and/or take such a tag. I know that at yesterday's BB7 I took a shot to the ponytail, and though it wasn't called, I took it (primarily because the dart got stuck in my hair). But then when outside I apparently took a few tags to my mag pouches that I hadn't noticed, and because nobody called the tag, I wasn't aware of them; until someone eventually mentioned I'd been tagged, and so I immediately accepted and bowed out.

I think a lot of this comes down to sportsmanship at the end of the day. If you can't see your shot tag someone, you can't call it. If your "poke it round the corner and spray" shot ricochets into my foot I'll probably ignore it: if your shot hits me square in the chest I'll call it myself. Similarly, if I tag your blaster in this situation chances are you'll not feel it, nor will you hear my call over the wining 180s. If I tag your fingers (as happened twice yesterday) then you know for sure you've been tagged!

That's why I'd say that for blaster tags to count, the blaster needs to be close to the body i.e. the shot would have hit the body if the blaster wasn't in the way: blaster mounted shields negate this rule. For any other sort of blaster tag, I feel it doesn't count/is too subjective/too difficult to police.
Davera

On balance blaster hits should count. Stops blind firing round a corner, and as oldnoob said if it's hit in real life it's gonna break.

As for gear hits, I think they should count. I got tagged by a zombie on my dump pouch and took it.

Simple way to look at it is if it's on you, it's part of you so counts as a hit.
Justajolt

I think this'll be useful for informing GuN practise. Great question!

I agree that blaster hits should count now!
jja

When i have hosted youth games we play all hits counts, Gear, Gun, Ricochets, Friendly fire. this prevents any confusion - any time you or your equipment are hit by a dart you re-spawn, regardless of where it came from.

I have found that the shot player calling hit is better than the shooter calling hits, (shooters can still call if the target did not notice, but emphasis on players call when they are hit).
Davera

Ooooo friendly fire hits.....I feel that is another topic, however I have not been counting friendly fire hits. Lots of kids seem to shoot first then they might have a think about whose team that person was on later....maybe.

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