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Full length darts and high fps ?

 
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Full length darts and high fps ?
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Rab
Nerf Addict


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 695
Fav. Blaster: Space badger / spam cannon combo
Location: Central Scotland



Post Full length darts and high fps ?  Reply with quote
Is there a maximum fps you can still use full length darts?

I'm thinking of pimping up the longshot again at some point,
I know theres benefits to using short darts but whats going to happen if you used standard ammo?

Cheers

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Crrrick Crrrick    BOOOMFF !!!
Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:43 pm View user's profile Send private message
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4826
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
The longshot creates several issues-
1- If you are not using a functional barrel (brass or similar) and sealed breech, the larger plunger volume creates problems with muzzle blast over about 100fps. I can't hit a barn door with my 120fps Longshot, but as people at tech day can attest my Retal, which has a sealed breech and functional short barrel appropriate to its smaller plunger volume is much more precise.
2- Dart mass distribution is what you tune for FPS. If the Centre of Mass is well forward vs the Centre if Pressure, then the darts flight will be stable. This is why elites spiral at over 90fps, their CM is starting to be behind the CP, making them "gimbal" in flight.
Stefans work because they have a shorter tail, which is both less affected by barrel blast and which puts the CM further forward.
3- Volumetrically the LS is very inefficient at lower spring rates, its big, slow plunger needs lots of spring to achieve the same velocity and volumetric efficiency as an elite plunger like the retal. A 10kg retal will shoot easily as hard, if not a little harder, than an equivalent LS. See my post in Chrono forum on ls vs retal.
4- Dart gate behaviour, the LS uses the dart tooth, with no gate. This can make it very picky with loading full length darts. If you have the stock bolt and breech, only certain darts are reliable. I found X tip foam too narrow and soft to be reliable and stacked worked better despite the lower mass. Some shoot koosh, not all. Most don't push the dart fully back into the bolt, wasting more power and increasing instability by reducing the effective barrel length.

If you want a decent LS then you can use full length darts, but only with a correctly tuned functional barrel and heavier darts.

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Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:56 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rab
Nerf Addict


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 695
Fav. Blaster: Space badger / spam cannon combo
Location: Central Scotland



Post Reply with quote
Hmm, I've actually got my 14kg Longshot working really well.

I'd just had my head turned by the nerfturf 26kg combo spring and availability of metal parts.

Maybe I'll just park that idea and do a pump retal at some point, tbh I probably wouldn't have had a chance to use it anyway.

Cheers.

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Crrrick Crrrick    BOOOMFF !!!
Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:14 pm View user's profile Send private message
OldNoob
Foam Data Collector


Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 4826
Fav. Blaster: Xtreme 180 Rapidstrike
Location: In the Boonies



Post Reply with quote
Most of those metal parts are entirely unnecessary as is the comically large spring. If you properly sleeperbreech the 14kg you have it will hit the top end of UK games anyway. Maybe you Irn Bru drinking types are more brawny than us wimpy southerners but 26kg, priming that is not going to be good for the joints.
The parts worth having on the LS are lipless breech (see PWND) Roboman bolt carrier, Roboman carbon priming rod, sleeper breech if you don't go lipless and some of the printed infill pieces they make to support things like the back of the plunger tube and back of the catch plate which bow under load due to the thin, open nature of the clamshell design.
Most of the metal parts are wholly pointless and adding mass to the plunger head is really dumb as it robs velocity. Also all the "pusher" type breeches using O rings are both unreliable and create unnecessary deadspace vs  brass ones where the dart fits INTO the bolt as in the stock system.



_________________
Big_Poppa_Nerf wrote:

Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:22 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
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